The following exchange is from Dialogue Group 2, Thread 43.

5. Test
Fri, Nov 20, 1998 - 9:00 AM/EST
myrna

Since this is a test I suppose I can say anything I want - my favorite ice cream flavor is vanilla - I love the beach - I love san francisco and brooklyn is the bomb - QUOTE: "Be more concerned with your character than with your reputation. Your character is what you really are while your
reputation is merely what others think you are." -- Dale Carnegie.

6. Myrna re: brooklyn->bomb
Fri, Nov 20, 1998 - 9:53 AM/EST
Shannon

New phrase to me. does it mean B. is good or bad?
I think I can guess but I'd like to know?

What's your biggest gripe about Brooklyn? or
What's the best thing?

Shannon

7. i'm wondering too
Fri, Nov 20, 1998 - 12:47 PM/EST
andi

what kind'a bomb? british or american? the one's a blast, the other a dud.

8. Da Bomb
Fri, Nov 20, 1998 - 8:19 PM/EST
eastpeach

Hey Y'all -

Well, after having lived there, I hope Myrna meant bomb in a good sense (isn't it a really old expression when something is a "bomb" and I think it's good!) When I was there, Brooklyn was bery, bery goood to me ... my favorite thing? Hmmmm ... Saturday mornings walking to Brooklyn Heights and then along the river - great brownstones and lots of history ... working behind the counter at a great little restaurant complete with its own cat ... Sundays walking down 7th Ave. in Park Slope and seeing every color, shape and size imaginable - lots of people either coming or going from one religious service or another - the old men talking next to the bodega (sp?) on Flatbush Avenue ... having some of my clothes ripped off at the laundromat (cause of my own inattention (!) - hope someone made good use of the stuff) ... taking the 2 or the 3 train at all times of the day and night ... my downstair's neighbors who always had great music (both recorded and live, he was a professional musician)... there's more, but I think I've said enough ...

Myrna, care to elaborate?

9. re ripping off clothes
Sat, Nov 21, 1998 - 2:48 AM/EST
andi

hot blooded bunch, these brooklyners. hope you weren't wearing them at the time

12. Hello
Mon, Nov 23, 1998 - 8:38 AM/EST
myrna

I grew up in Brooklyn Park Slope and the Heights. Went every where on the train and tasted a little of everything. had an aunt Sophie - who was really a Neighbor watching my friends and I grow up. Began college at BMCC. The "bomb" is an old expression and yes it's a good reference. I miss Brooklyn, the ability to go anywhere at anytime. Catching the train into the city at 2am and finding the city wide awake. I'm settled now I can only go visit and then come home, I cannot stay up without any sleep and still function in the morning. ;-) Brooklyn was very good to me too.

13. Oh, you mumbling fool ...
Mon, Nov 23, 1998 - 4:12 PM/EST
eastpeach

Never fear, andi, the clothes were rather far away from my physical person - indeed, that's why they were stolen! And you're right, they are a hot-blooded lot. Most of the time this is a good thing.

And Myrna - I was flipping through the channels on Sunday, and what do I hear - liberal use of the phrase "the bomb" on MTV - yikes! I never watch the channel cause I'm just not that demographic anymore. But, as the song goes, everything old is new again ...

Cheers

14. re: the lure(?) of the city
Tue, Nov 24, 1998 - 2:18 AM/EST
andi

when i first came to the kibbutz, i thought i could never stay here for more than a few months, with all those cows lowing on manure heaps and cocks crowing in the fields - or is it the other way round? anyroad, it was (still is) very pastoral, bucolic almost.
today i break out in cold sweat at the idea of going into town (town to me means any place with traffic jams and more than a thousand people not at work). the stench and noise are abominable. how can you stand it?

15. hi denise
Wed, Nov 25, 1998 - 3:55 AM/EST
andi

well, i was rather talking of the physical aspects of city life which cause me headaches. kibbutzim are villages, ours has about 280 members and a population of about five hundred.
i'm working on a homepage for the kibbutz. it's still very much in its first stages. (you can click the word homepage above, i hope it works). villages have got their own problems, with little groups of people sticking together. if the group is strong and influential its generally called "hahevre" (=the guys) by its supporters and "mafia" by its detractors.
reshafim is arguably one of the less stimulating kibbutzim. people are very down to earth and many of those who weren't, left the kibbutz. but on the whole they are a decent and lovable lot. they are mostly quite well educated and well read, though university graduates tend to leave for greener and more remunerative pastures in cities.
we have got some "intellectuals" left, the boring uni professor of the three who were members, a chap who published two somewhat unreadable books (he's an excellent storyteller though and at long last he's begun writing short stories) and a few others. but compared to some other kibbutzim, we are an intellectual backwater.
the thing that saves us is that 99% are jews. as you know, whenever two jews meet there are three different opinions. now it'll be quite easy for you to figure out by combinatorial calculus (there is such a thing, isn't there? permutations, combinations and what not) the number of opinions very freely and loudly expressed.
all that's generally speaking and like all generalities as right as it's wrong. if you've got a specific question, i'd be glad to answer.

16. Hmmm ...
Wed, Nov 25, 1998 - 4:06 PM/EST
eastpeach

andi:

I wonder what happened to my initial questions which were the backdrop for your latest post - it seems to be missing?!?

I will check out the kibbutz homepage later - the word's at least hypertexted, so we'll see what happens!

From your description, it sounds to me like everyone's got an opinion, everyone speaks up, but nobody seems to take it all too personally. Sounds so civilized! I think that's one of this country's biggest problems - we all take it soooo personally - myself included sometimes *big ole grin*.

I'm really intrigued by the fact that some kibbutz aren't comprised exclusively of jews. What are the other ethnicities/religious bents? Do you have a computer within the kibbutz? Without being too specific, where's your kibbutz located? How and/or why did you want to live there?

17. i asked for your questions, didn't i?
Thu, Nov 26, 1998 - 1:53 AM/EST
andi

i'm afraid something i wrote must have misled you into thinking that people didn't take things personally. that was far from my intention. as the word "mafia" indicates some of our members are considered by others to indulge in, to say the least, doubtful activities.
the "ethnic" mix also causes quite a few gripes, with for instance the poles (still poles, after fifty years in the country) complaining about the roumanians (the leading community at the founding of the kibbutz) getting more than their fair share; and of course they do, some being more equal than others.
but these cases of "ethnic" troubles are unimportant compared to the problems created when individuals have a falling out, and many of them have come to real grief. i know you'd just love to hear the latest sex scandal (you wouldn't be here at reality check if it hadn't tickled you), but i'm not going to tell, unless of course you insist.
one particularly nasty problem we're having just now is that of a woman who works outside the kibbutz. you should know first, that all earnings have to be paid into the kibbutz account and we all get a monthly and equal allowance; moreover owning a private car is a definite no-no! now this woman said she needed a car for her job. the kibbutz put one at her disposal, but as happens when people are sharing, something or other went wrong and she claimed, she couldn't go on working like this. so she got money from her mother, who at the time was living as a dependent on the kibbutz, and bought herself a second hand car. but she needed money to run it, didn't she? so she didn't pay all her earnings into the kibbutz account. one thing leading to another, she began keeping all the money to herself and, with her husband out of work, they lived at the expense of the community. just now lawyers have taken over and will probably make a bundle from it.
i don't want to put blame on anybody as i simply don't know enough about it. individual members have often shown themselves to be selfish, opinionated and resentful. while the powers that be have been petty, unresponsive and ill advised. these differences often stem from misunderstandings which get blown out of all proportions and either side tries to demonize the other. my attitude of course shows you clearly, that i haven't had a serious run-in with my elders and betters yet. you'll hear me shouting blue murder when my time comes.

while most kibbutzniks are jewish and deeply irreligiously so, a few of us aren't. mostly former volunteers who wanted to get out of the rat race or fell in love with a local. with me it was pure ideology: i think capitalism the way we see it in the industrialized countries stinks . western society is manipulative, divisive, exploitative, uncaring deep down, do you really want me to go on?

and yes, we have a computer or two on the kibbutz. out of about 150 households more than 60 have at least one pc and practically all of them are connected to the internet. my plan of using our private cable system for computer communications was a bit premature and so we're using telephone lines. (just in case you were wondering: we do have telephones.) but i've still got hopes that we'll all be interconnected in a few years time.

concerning our whereabouts i needn't trouble anymore as you've been sniffing around our website, haven't you? don't forget, i'm big brother around here and know all about you.
so long
andi

18. Well you may know some things ...
Fri, Nov 27, 1998 - 6:25 PM/EST
eastpeach

about what my computer does, but I guarantee, andi, you know almost nothing about li'l ole me!

But yes, I did check out the website - it was an interesting tour, thank you. But it does sound like some of the traits of western society (and I'm talking about your description) have creeped into kibbutz life. How do you reconcile yourself to that? If you can, try and remember what your expectations of living there were - are you disappointed now in some things, have some of your expectations not been met?