The following exchange is from Dialogue Group 8, Thread 23.

1. "Race"
Tue, Jan 5, 1999 - 7:55 AM/EST
Deborah

I thought that maybe we should devote a thread to this vexed topic.

It is one that perplexes me. I understand what ethnicity is in cultural terms, but race seems to me to be very hard to define. My more bio-genetically astute buddies assure me that the concept of race has no basis at the chromosomal level. The physical anthropologists and genealogists think that every human is pretty closely related to every other human.

One of the things that has always perplexed me is the concept of being "white." When I was growing up, we were taught a lot about Nazis. We learned that they believed that they were the master race of white people and wanted to destroy us (the Jewish people) because we were an inferior race. The KKK was understood to be the homegrown version in the U.S.A. So whenever I hear talk about "white people," at a certain level, I'm looking around nervously,and saying to myself, "Uh-oh! Nazis and KKK members!" Imagine my consternation when I find out that many people categorize me, on the basis of my looks, as a white person.

Well, if I'm not a white person, what am I? "Other," I guess.

:-)

Best regards from Deborah

2. Metro Bus panel advertisement
Tue, Jan 5, 1999 - 8:34 AM/EST
donald

The large exterior display panel on the side of the passenger buses her have had the following ad this year:
Race is Fiction
Racism is Real

3. Donald
Tue, Jan 5, 1999 - 9:05 AM/EST
Mack

Years ago, when I was teaching philosophy at Wayne State University, I remember a lecture that I gave on the concept of race. I took the physiological characteristics that were supposedly distinguishing marks whereby one could determine another's race. I then argued that whatever physical characteristic one took, it appeared in varying degrees in different individuals. Pigmentation, flatness of nose, hair quality, length of heel, etc., etc. All characteristics seemed to vary within a certain range. At one extreme of such a range, one might say "black." At the other, "white." But as there were myriads of individuals who fell between the extremes, the decision as to which of these fell in which category was essentially arbitrary. Why draw the line at one point and not another?

I concluded that the concept of race was not a physiological concept supported by any scientific criteria whatever, but rather a sociological, and indeed, political concept, historically utlized in the subjugation of human beings by human beings.

I also recall, from a course in American History I once took at the University of Michigan, that the concept of race was first introduced in this country, and then exploited only *after* slavery had been introduced in 1609. It was a transparent attempt to justify a hideous practice that men *knew* was wrong, wrong, wrong. They sought to salve their uneasy consciences with the myth of racial superiority/inferiority.

4. Skin color
Tue, Jan 5, 1999 - 9:22 AM/EST
Joy

I have experienced racism. My ex husband (father of my children) is very, very dark complected. He is actually a descendant of eskimo's and hispanics. Very dark and handsome (dont judge the book by its cover gals! oh well) My son looks exactly like his father. My son is so dark that he is darker than several children in a family where the parents are caucasion/african-american. When he was about 1 year old I was working in a fast food joint and the other workers were very rude to me. Didnt include me in conversations, just horrible. One day my ex dropped by at my job and one of the girls took me in the back and said "Joy, I want to apologize to you. We all thought your baby was by a black guy because he is so dark." I thanked her, then I LOUDLY quit my job. On the spot, in front of the customers, I told those girls where to stick their racism! They were all visibly embarrassed and shaken.

Johnny has had problems himself, but only in his own mind. He isn't the only dark complected kid in his school but he feels different.

Another cute story about my daughter: one day in Cincinnati I took a wrong turn and ended up in the middle of gang territory. I had both kids with me. I stopped to use a payphone to call for help because I was so lost. And I couldnt even flag down a cop! We used the phone & when we turned to go back to the car there were about 15 guys, in blue flannel shirts & tobogans around my car (middle of june-crazy). I took both kids by the hand and walked straight through them and opened my car door and got in. We locked the doors. These guys started to BOUNCE my car up and down. Terrifying! My little girl about 4 years old at the time said "Mommy they wont hurt Johnny cause he looks like them! But what are they gonna do to us - Johnny talk to them - tell them to let us go!!!!" It was adorable, if it werent so darn scary! I just put the car in reverse and decided if I killed somebody that was there own problem! And they parted like the red sea.

8. Joy
Tue, Jan 5, 1999 - 3:34 PM/EST
donald

Such ignorance is not to be tolerated, but anger is not a constructive response unless its expression to the ignorant stimulates change.

Monday's Washington Post print edition had an interesting column by William Raspberry about "racially mixed" persons and how in the African American community self perception by these individuals is changing. Since Raspberry is nationally syndicated, watch for this column in your local paper of find it online at www.washingtonpost.com

When I was growing up we had many different nationalities and so called races as guests in our home. Ethopian, Chinese, Armenian, Hungarian, Israeli, Swedish, French, Argentine, Nigerian, Polish, etc. etc. Mother and Dad freely admitted they were prejudiced, but also were quick to condemn prejudice (even their own) and admonished myself and my sisters to never fail to see the human being beneath the skin and beyond the label. The funniest "tightwad jewish jokes" I heard were told by the Finklestien brothers, but we also knew there were many generous and big spending members of that community. The stereotype was funny, but no more to be believed than that Jack Benny was 39. I know that I have my own prejudices. For example, I find conversation with a Cherokee or Choctaw far easier than trying to converse with an Apache. By recognizing my prejudices, it permits me to suspend judgement long enough to see the human being behind the facade.

9. Mack
Tue, Jan 5, 1999 - 3:47 PM/EST
donald

Racism is not unique to the West. During my years in Japan I came to learn how many Japanese regarded the "inferior" Korean race as worthy of doing only menial work. In fact these same individual Japanes were more accepting of Caucasian, Native and African Americans than they were of what they considered to be lowly, inferior Koreans.

10. Donald
Tue, Jan 5, 1999 - 4:05 PM/EST
Mack

Seems to be a human failing, no?

14. I don't know if this will clarify anything,...but
Wed, Jan 6, 1999 - 12:29 PM/EST
Rick

I have a racially mixed marriage myself. Or at least I assumed so when I got married. My wife is Mexican, I'm northern European--both second generation in this country. Temperamentally, we are very different, but that turned out to be an advantage. Religiously, we both come from very conservative backgrounds, her Catholic and myself Protestant. This also didn't turn out to be a problem--we just agreed to attend the churches alternately and I agreed to have my son raised as a Catholic.

The amazing thing to me--and something I realized only after many years--was that our cultural differences (which were significant) didn't really get in the way at all. Rather, they enhanced our relationship. However, we were both blind-sided by differences over child-raising methods. These differences were finally traceable to religious attitudes (at a high enough level of abstraction that I really do differentiate them from culture per se). This perception was confirmed for me when I had the opportunity to do an in-depth study of white/Hispanic relationships as part of my MSW program. Seems that 'race' (which for most Hispanics is really more 'culture' than any thing else) is far less important in these particular relationships than religion. Since we had really agreed at the outset to compromise on overt religious issues, the only way it could manifest itself with us was far from the source--thus we were blind-sided.

Fortunately, my son integrated the whole thing while it was going on better than we did, and I think he is the stronger for it.

15. Deborah
Wed, Jan 6, 1999 - 9:58 PM/EST
Frederick

I think you hit the nail on the head, to coin a phrase, when you opined that humans naturally categorize experience and that too often leads to unfair categorization of individuals.

If the American experiment in integration and desegregation shows anything, it is that the only way to counter negative perceptions of other ethnic groups is through positive experience.

16. Attributions
Sat, Jan 9, 1999 - 12:28 PM/EST
Deborah

As I mentioned before, I have experienced a gap between my self-attribution and the way others categorized me.

I'm interested in hearing from others;

Do you identify yourself as belonging to a "race," other than the "human race"?

If so,have you ever experienced a descrepancy between the way you identify yourself and the way someone else categorized you? What happened? How did you feel?

Have you ever experienced a descrepancy between the way you categorized someone else and the way he/she identified him/herself? What was that like?

Best regards from Deborah