The following exchange is from Dialogue Group 3, Thread 5.

6. Drugs!...you can only use the ones the government approves :)
Fri, Nov 13, 1998 - 10:30 PM/EST
baggins

Sixo said; "there are plenty of drugs out there which are just plain deadly and destructive. legalize marijuana sure. but heroin and cocaine? not in a million years."

On what do you base your statement about heroin? Pharmacologically it is not a dangerous drug if used sensibly. The problems relate more to psychosocial issues often related to drug use generally. A recent survey in Australia identified middle class professionals, using heroin for recreational purposes, as the major consumers of the substance in this country. Because of their motivations and usage patterns they dont demonstrate the problems the media has taught us to associate with drug use. They use in an educated way and therefore are able to use long term with low risk. You are much safer to be operated on by a surgeon under the influence of heroin used in this way than than by a surgeon who has drunk alcohol. As many have stated, it is alcohol and nicotine that are the real danger.

I would add that poverty and disempowerment in our society also create dangers and it is they which concern me more than the pharmacological nature of an individual's drug of choice.

Cheers,

Baggins.

7. Black Market
Sat, Nov 14, 1998 - 7:58 AM/EST
Dom

Cigarettes and alcohol, to quote Oasis, are socially acceptable in our society. People don't (generally) have to commit crime in order to get the drug that they crave. I believe firmly that it is this "War on Drugs" which is itself causing the crime surrounding the drug trade. As it becomes more difficult to get a drug into the country, so the price goes up.

Remove the drugs from the black market, and you remove the crime associated with those drugs. Crimes are committed in an effort to get the drugs, not while people are actually under the influence of the drugs. If someone is on LSD, they wouldn't be able to keep it together long enough to commit a decent crime. If someone is on heroin, they are probably not capable of getting to the door, never mind commit a crime.

If you put the drugs in the shops, readily available, then people will just buy them like they buy a bottle of whisky, or a packet of fags. They won't have to go and burgle a house first, and won't be introduced to the criminal world just by their effort to get at these drugs.

Another reason why I believe that the governments don't want to legalise pot/blow/gange (whatever) is that they can't tax it efficiently, when anyone can grow it in their loft/garden. The government here (Britain) makes enough money on cigarettes and alcohol to fund the entire NHS. Imagine the loss of revenue if eveyone stopped drinking and smoking cigarettes and took up smoking blow instead!! So I think we may be fighting a losing battle.

But anyway, who do the governments of our respective countries think they are anyway?? If I want to dedicate my life to the injecting of heroin into my body, that should be up to me. I don't tell them that they aren't allowed to stay up after 10:00pm, or they're not allowed to drink coffee, do I? I think that Establishment should stay out of my body, because it is up to ME what I put into it. Did you know that they banned beef on the bone over here? So you can't have a T-bone steak anywhere in Britain now!!

9. Details for sixo
Sun, Nov 15, 1998 - 4:28 AM/EST
Beren

Was a little worried when I started this thread... thought I 'd get slammed :) Nice to see that all of you agree with me so far. Sixo, I do think that all drugs should be legalised. I don't care what drug. Drug use is a personal choice, should be up to the person. Dom makes all the points that I would perfectly clear in his post.

My wife and I were heavy into the coke trade circa 1985, we were moving on average a pound a week of coke. About the last 6 months, we noticed a drop in price and that it was going into low income markets. We had been dealing into the upscale suburban market. We had many professionals as regular customers, talking doctors,lawyers, dentists here.

When we got busted, the cops were totally corrupt. We had over an oz of coke and probably about a lb of pot at the time. All that showed up on the police report was a 1/4oz of coke and a 1/4lb of pot. Just enuf to charge us with a felony possesion. Not to mention the 2k$ that also disappeared from the report. And what are you gonna do, tell the judge " No... yer honor, I had much more than that!" . I don't think so! Way it ended up, we both did 45 days county time with 5 yrs probation.
We did our time and haven't dealt since.... But I must say that we were moral dealers. Never sold to anyone under 18, we'd cut people off if we knew they were spending their rent money . Matter of fact, the only reason we were raided was 'cause we wouldn't sell to a chick we knew was pregnant. She got pissed and turned us in. That's the breaks, eh?

10. Nixon, it was Nixon
Sun, Nov 15, 1998 - 10:29 AM/EST
j2saret

The formal war on drugs started under Richard Nixon. I think a lot of making it a "war" was that opponents of the real war, Vietnam, were being painted as drug users and the underlying assumption was "if they wern't high they would not be generating all this opposition." Very soon after he appointed a Drug Czar stories started appearing in the press about doors being kicked down and innocent people shot as they resisted what they thought were armed crimminals, but were federal narcotics police invading the wrong home. Things then scaled back until the far right got Reagan elected, then things really escalated.

Drugs should, of course, be legal for responsible adults (those with out serious mental problems) The only worry I have is dishonest marketing of legal drugs--take a look at what the Liquor, Tobbacco, and Herbal Remedy industries do with their legal but questionable products. Still and all the cure (war on drugs) is far worse than the disease (drug addiction)
Speaking personally, I've never done a drug I wasn't done with long before the drug was done with me so I do very little in the way of drugs--some homebrew or a glass of brandy now and then is it these days.

One last thought: Isn't it an old conservative maxim that "If you want less of something tax it. If you want more of something subsidize it."?

We subsidize a war on drugs and are now number one in first world nations in locking up our citizens. Why not stop susidizing the war and start taxing the drugs?

John