Big Brother vs Privacy (15 posts)
2. Gayle's questions
Tue, Jan 19, 1999 - 12:32 PM/EST
McRostie
Gayle, you're a question asker par-exelence.
Is this medium an invasion of privacy? My answer is no. We engage in it voluntarilly and if we don't know or understand the risks, shame on us.
Just yesterday over lunch, my wife and I were discussion this group and I said some people use assumed names but that I used ,my own.
She asked if that might not be dangerous. My reply was that my ideas are mine and I'm not afraid to loose them on the world. If some total nut runs amok and does me in because of them, maybe that fact will give the ideas more currency than they would otherwise have. In any event, I'll live (hopefully) with them.
Regards, McRostie
3. Good Thread!!
Tue, Jan 19, 1999 - 1:53 PM/EST
JimP
Big brother vs. privacy seems to place the focus as either/or, yes or no terms. Basically, I don't think we can look at it that way.
An example: Last Friday, my wife received an ad in the mail for something, I don't even remember what. It said, to paraphrase, "Congratulations Ms ____ on your nn birthday." The nn was the age she will be in a few more days. She was surprised that they knew when her birthday was, and how old she would be. I told her that use of any credit card basically places that kind of information in the public domain.
The point is, we tend to voluntarily give up certain privacies in return for certain benefits. There are those in the country who do not want to do so. They seem to want the absolute right of privacy along with the benefits obtained by relinguishing some of it.
There are also those who have a real fear that the government has information about each person that can be used to control. I admit that I am a sometime, weaker supporter of that point of view.
To me, many aspects of living in this country, probably all, are a tension between counter points. The system of government is an example at the macro level. The three arms are supposed to provide the checks and balances that allow us to live without fear.
At the micro level, the tension between use of convenient credit (we pay our credit cards each month, in full) and of the use of the information that can be gathered by such use also gives me reason to think. I mean, besides going through my garbage and trash, my spending habits are the easiest means of learning all there is to know about me. Do I want it to be used to reach me in an advertisement?
So, another long post. I'm still thinking about some of the other points in your post Gayle, and of yours McRostie.
Thanks for making me think. I need this.
Jim
4.
Tue, Jan 19, 1999 - 3:20 PM/EST
JimP
"Does this mean we are just willing to give up some of our right to privacy in order to reach out and learn more about others around the world, and in so doing learn more about ourselves?"
Yes
"Or does this mean those of us making ourselves vulnerable to each other through this form of high tech communication are too dumb to be a little more paranoid?"
Possibly, but I'll take the chance.
"Could it be that we still trust, child-like, that nothing bad could happen to us?"
I hope so.
5. Modesty
Wed, Jan 20, 1999 - 11:49 AM/EST
McRostie
Jim, you modesty is becoming. But, I don't realy think you need anyone to "make you think". You're doing fine on your own, much better than most of us.
Regards, McRostie
6. Safety vs Freedom
Wed, Jan 20, 1999 - 1:08 PM/EST
JimP
First, thank you McRostie. I probably should have used "cause" rather than "make." I tend to get lazy and coast along with my preconceived ideas until something like this forum causes me to examine them.
The remainder of this post could either be posted here, or in the gun control thread. I chose this thread.
Once again, society has to consider their options. It seems to me that there will always be a tension between many of the conflicting concepts we have discussed. I think that safety versus freedom is an excellent example of such a tension.
The completely safe society has no freedom. The completely free society has no guarantee of safety, though it may, indeed, be safe. The "real" society that we have must accept a tension between these conflicting values.
In my opinion, elements of our society have not accepted the fact that life is not lived in the extremes; it is a system of compromises, checks, and balances, based on a trust that there is a fairness in humankind that will provide the majority with the intelligence to maintain the balance, and protect the minority. (That's an extremely long sentence, but properly constructed I believe.)
Gun control, abortion, and many other subjects, including politics, have taken on the rhetoric of the extreme, or at least I believe that they have. I think we need the extremes to be expressed, but I also believe that policy should reflect the middle.
I hope that I am not hopelessly out of touch. I fear that I am.
Comments?
Regards, Jim
7. jimp
Thu, Jan 21, 1999 - 4:19 AM/EST
mmac
i think you are absolutely correct in the big brother vs. privacy point of view. i also agree with u 100% about that we need the extremes of politics on both sides.too much has been demogague about the extremes of both party.one side believes on the far right and one side believes on the far left.most of the time they have to compromise to the middle to get anything done.it is my belief if they dont then the issue isnt pressing enough to settle.thats the american system.other then that i cant add anything more cuz you hit the tail on the donkey jimp.
8. She's baaaack...
Sun, Jan 24, 1999 - 9:10 PM/EST
Gayle
I think you've already seen that I'm not for censorship in any form other than self-censorship. I don't fear this means of communication and believe it to be one of the best things to ever be invented.
Spies, terrorists, document thieves, what have you? Well, bad things can happen anywhere and at anytime, so why waste too much time worrying about it?
9. BUT...
Mon, Jan 25, 1999 - 2:31 AM/EST
Gayle
Cookies make me very angry! I don't like being tracked (stalked) when I'm researching or just having fun surfing. I don't like the fact that some of the cookies cannot be deleted from the files. They are a huge invasion of privacy!
I have a very nasty and vulgar comment about them for the jackasses who decided they were necessary.
Got that Big Brother?...got that Bill Gates?...
10. Big Brother Meme
Tue, Jan 26, 1999 - 4:22 PM/EST
worker ant
I ran across this meme (contagious idea) several years ago:
George Orwell got everything in _1984_ right, except that instead of Big Brother watching us, we're watching Big Brother.
We are programmed by multinational corporations (GE owns NBC, Disney owns ABC, etc.) as they, in cooperation with the government, see fit. This meme isn't as powerful since the popularization of the Internet, but it's still interesting to look at mass media through this lens.
11. Huh?
Tue, Jan 26, 1999 - 5:32 PM/EST
JimP
I truly hate to show my abysmal ignorance, but what's a meme, and cookie?
12. Huh?
Tue, Jan 26, 1999 - 5:32 PM/EST
JimP
I truly hate to show my abysmal ignorance, but what's a meme, and cookie?
13. Well,
Tue, Jan 26, 1999 - 6:56 PM/EST
Gayle
I'll tell you about cookies, but this is the first I've heard about memes.
Cookies are little spies set in your computer by a website. Reality Check set one when you began posting the first time, if you checked the box below the user name/password box.
They are a way of checking on what sites you go to so they can "market".
Better that you see the propaganda yourself:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cookies
You'll find information for the type of browser your running.
14. workerant
Tue, Jan 26, 1999 - 7:00 PM/EST
Gayle
I never watch commercials (love that remote control!), so maybe I've poked those big corporations in at least one eye. ?:)
15. Memetics
Wed, Jan 27, 1999 - 5:02 PM/EST
worker ant
A meme (pronounced "meem") is a contagious idea. The meme is to culture what the gene is to biology. Memetics is the study of memes.
You can find more information at the following URL:
http://www.notam.uio.no/~mariusw/memetics/index.html
or at alt.memetics.
It's a really interesting field, perhaps worthy of its own thread here.
